BOTM

* Sponsors


Author Topic: All-Balls Bearings???  (Read 719 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline rddcw

  • I too smell like a lawnmower
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 1
    • Location: Ca.
All-Balls Bearings???
« on: October 15, 2013, 09:45:21 PM »
77' RD400.  I have a set of bronze swing arm bushings not yet installed, like to purchase a set of tapered steering head bearings. Anyone use manufacture: All-Balls for there bearing set-up ? I believe part # 22-1007 ? Ebay has a pretty good price on them. Any trouble installing them or is there a better manufacture out there you recommend more ?

Offline cutlass79500

  • Underwater Basket Weaver
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 1
    • 2 years of my bikes
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2013, 10:27:06 PM »
I have used them before on a 400 honda. Hopefully the rd ones are better their instructions suck you have to make a lot of mods part of the mods you have to do with hondas is grinding the nut down about 1/8 inch. About 5 pics of things you have to do are on their instruction sheet which is no bigger then a 1 sided business card.  The upper bearing is taller then the old one. They are kind of universal same kit fits all the different bikes and makes that take the same bearings just according to your bearing sizes you have to measure the distance between the lower tree and the top of the race on the old bearing and use the proper shim when you pull it apart all the balls fall out so you have to put it all back together off the bike to measure you better get it right the first time if your wrong after you put the lower bearing on you ruin it getting it off.The problem with the top tree With the taller bearing  the upper tree moves up about 1/4 inch which makes your factory headlamp ears loose and you have to shim them. Their seals suck look very close and study them so you don't get them mixed up. Not sure on the rd400 but a lot of people with different bikes have the same problem. And yes the races are in their proper positions. I even got in touch with all balls they do not care about repeat customers.All i did was ask them to put a bigger instruction sheet so people can see the pics better. The reason they are so small from the vibe i got from then was so they don't have to warranty them they will ask you if you followed instructions and actually quiz you on them they know they are to small and most people won't read them or just cant because of the size. I did everything on mine right the first time. They work don't get me wrong but plan on a bunch of mods. But hopefully someone here has done them on a rd 400 hopefully you won't have all the mods like you have to on most bikes. Good luck i want to hear how it turns out.
85 maxim x yamaha
81 cm400a Honda
73 rd250 5k
73 rd350 5100 miles
85 gs450 Suzuki

Offline jeffmn

  • Underwater Basket Weaver
  • Posts: 171
  • Karma: 2
    • Location: Minneapolis
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2013, 10:48:18 PM »
I am assuming i put my together okay (rd400), but who knows i have made a lot of dumb mistakes up until this point. I am sure others will correct me if i am wrong.

I was concerned with the fact that the stick up but i dont really notice it when everything is assembled. I bought o-rings to fill the void but i never ended up using them.

Online jrotten99

  • 2-Stroke Tuner
  • Posts: 818
  • Karma: 6
    • Location: Reading Pa.
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2013, 10:57:20 PM »
The all balls bearing kits for the rd work just fine.

Offline rddcw

  • I too smell like a lawnmower
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 1
    • Location: Ca.
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2013, 11:06:41 PM »
Wow !!!  Doesn't sound like to good of a product ???  I wonder if there is a better bearing kit out there ???  Anyone like to chime in ?

Online jrotten99

  • 2-Stroke Tuner
  • Posts: 818
  • Karma: 6
    • Location: Reading Pa.
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2013, 11:16:07 PM »
The product is fine. About a ten minute job for most people. The all balls are made in china, like most things these days but they are a good replacement part.

Offline rddcw

  • I too smell like a lawnmower
  • Posts: 201
  • Karma: 1
    • Location: Ca.
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2013, 08:09:53 AM »
But the question is they stick up above the race as described ? Sounds like to me that the bearing size is to thick ? Economy Cycle sells a tapered bearing kit but don't know who manufactures them ? Are they different and can anyone answer that question ?

Online jspooner

  • 2-Stroke Tuner
  • Posts: 911
  • Karma: 46
    • Location: Chippewa Falls WI
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2013, 08:47:28 AM »
Jrotten is right, they work fine. I used them in mine. Yes it sticks up a bit but the dust cover will cover it. If you are running the stock headlight ears you might have to add another o-ring or something so that the upper triple squeezes everything together like it should, but other than that they work fine. I bought mune from Economy and I'm pretty sure they were All Balls.

Offline Vintage Smoke

  • Feed the 2 Stroke Addiction!!!
  • Addict
  • Posts: 1638
  • Karma: 77
  • It's either smokin or broken...
    • Location: Northern NJ
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2013, 08:52:36 AM »
I have had some dealings with AllBalls and it all has been good. They make a variety of products and they have helped me out of a few tricky situations from bearing issues for oddball applications to an electric starter on a Harley. I have always been impressed with their customer service.

They try when possible to source bearings from the US or Canada. Sometimes when a part becomes too expensive or too obscure to source from North America they will source from overseas, but they do their due diligence in checking on quality.

Keep in mind that they are not a bearing manufacturer, but a supplier that researches bearing availability from different manufacturers and applications then offers them for sale. There are very few actual bearing manufacturers and even the OEM's will usually try find an existing bearing when designing an assembly. The engineering and cost that goes into producing a bearing to spec is insane and if they actually had a bearing made to spec just for the RD the retail price  would reflect that. Considering this, it is totally reasonable that the tapered bearing kit they offer for the RD steering conversion sits a little taller than the original ball bearings. Ball bearings have a very thin stacked height while tapered bearings of the same I.D. and O.D. are usually taller to allow enough contact surface for the bearings. Could someone have a bearing made that had the proper I.D., O.D., and stacked height? Yes, but it would be a custom bearing with very little usefulness outside of the RD steering bearings. Production numbers would be very low and the cost per bearing would be very high in order to pay for the cost of engineering, design, and tooling.

I have installed the All Balls steering kit and had no problem with it. It does spread the triple clamps a little further apart, but I simply put an o-ring over the gap. People on here have come up with similar solutions for the headlight ears. As to the seals, they don't have to be anything special. Steering bearings are a low speed bearing and the grease doesn't get flung around like in a tapered wheel bearing. The seal is simply a dust shield to keep contaminates out. Some bikes with tapered bearings don't even use a seal. They simply have a small thin metal plate covering the bearing to keep contaminates out.

To sum it up are all the All Balls kits a 100% perfect solution? No. They are not, but kudos to them for sifting through the commonly available bearings to find replacements at a reasonable price for all the various applications they offer. I have searched on my own through available bearings for weird applications and it can be a real time consuming headache. An oddball German manufactured trike that used a European Fiat wheel bearing comes to mind.

BTW....my only complaint about All Balls is the name. More than once I typed in www.AllBalls.com (DO NOT click on this link!!!!) while searching for their website and wound up on an x rated site that was  not my cup of tea. Use your imagination....
Their website is www.AllBallsRacing.com
Nick Pastore
Vintage Smoke
973-702-8500
www.VintageSmoke.com
77 RD400
73 & 75 RD350
75 RD200
2010 Ninja 350R (Banshee powered Ninja!!)

Offline Vintage Smoke

  • Feed the 2 Stroke Addiction!!!
  • Addict
  • Posts: 1638
  • Karma: 77
  • It's either smokin or broken...
    • Location: Northern NJ
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2013, 08:53:51 AM »
BTW....skip ebay. John from Economy Cycle sells the kit and offers a discount for forum members!!
Nick Pastore
Vintage Smoke
973-702-8500
www.VintageSmoke.com
77 RD400
73 & 75 RD350
75 RD200
2010 Ninja 350R (Banshee powered Ninja!!)

Offline cutlass79500

  • Underwater Basket Weaver
  • Posts: 196
  • Karma: 1
    • 2 years of my bikes
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2013, 07:35:07 PM »
Glad to know you don't have to modify the heck out of them like you do on hondas i was not sure figured people would know that have done the yamahas. Honda 1 kit fits almost all bikes up to a 750. I have not had any problems since the install but their instructions are still the pits.
85 maxim x yamaha
81 cm400a Honda
73 rd250 5k
73 rd350 5100 miles
85 gs450 Suzuki

Offline kg23

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2014, 07:04:13 PM »
...With the taller bearing  the upper tree moves up about 1/4 inch which makes your factory headlamp ears loose and you have to shim them...

This happened to me with my RD400 and the all-balls tapered steering bearings. I now am on a hunt for 34mm ID x ~2mm shims to stop my headlight ears from rattling. It would be nice to have known this before I pulled the bike apart. I do agree that their documentation is pretty pitiful.

Offline Gene Ungar

  • Zamfir: Master of the Pan Flute
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: 5
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2014, 08:49:45 PM »
Knowing the stack height issue, on my RD350 I installed only the bottom tapered roller bearing.  I treated the top bearing to new balls and so I retained the stock triple clamp spacing.  The bottom bearing takes all of the suspension loads, so it makes sense to upgrade.  The top bearing doesn't do much at all, so the ball bearings are just fine in that application.  The bike steers like a dream.
1974 RD350
2003 Bonneville
2008 KLR650

Offline nzminis

  • No cake for me
  • Posts: 276
  • Karma: 1
    • Location: New zealand
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2014, 09:52:55 PM »
as said just stick a few o rings under the ears and it stops them from moving

otherwise the kit is fine

Offline kg23

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
Re: All-Balls Bearings???
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2014, 07:50:16 PM »
Yep. The kit works fine, but knowing that you'll need a couple of o-rings ahead of time for RDs will save you some head scratching and time.

Place the o-rings under the washer at the bottom of the headlight ears. That one already has a rubber cushion ring. I found it easiest to line up the o-ring, washer, and headlight ears and slide the fork tube through.

I'm pretty amazed that my RD still had the original ball bearing steering bearings. 30,500 miles. I've owned it for 20 years (11K miles). I thought for sure I had replaced them with tapered.